Driving around L. A. for a week I have seen some interesting Bumper Stickers:
Many feature Manny Ramirez slogans or various Dodgers or Angles slogans. Some bumper stickers reveal a person’s feelings about Global Warming, Impeach Bush, or Viva Obama. But the one that made me think the most was the one that read “Pro-Child, Pro-Family, Pro-Choice”. Reading this on a Mercedes as it flew by me on my way to a Dodger game made me think of how “Abortion” and it’s various supporting slogans have become a symbol of the left and a slogan for the Democrats in general. Pro Choice is not so much a thought out position as it is a banner to wave for “Our Side”, “Our Team”, “Our Club”. The debate has succumbed to a fight song, a slogan, a symbol. No longer does the left want to speak about logic, reason, or even scientific evidence of the beginning of life. They only want to raise their “We’re Number One Banner” and wave it in our faces. Obama is no different. He states that he is a Christian but he is an Abortion Rights advocate and has even supported infanticide in the past.
His Abortion Banner Waves Higher than his Christian banner:
Obama believes that he has to maintain his alliance with the Abortion crowd to stay with his team and shout, “We’re Number One”. Obama is playing with the wrong team on the Abortion issue if he is truly a Christian. Obama is a slogan himself; it is no wonder that he has attached himself to a slogan that goes against his “Christian” beliefs.
I don’t expect non-believers to understand:
Although in God’s eyes non-believers are still held accountable for their sins. But as a human and a Christian I can understand that non-believers on the left can fall into group think and the feeling of wanting to belong to a team and raise their personal banner for their cause. I can understand that a non-believer does not have even a vague understanding of the God of the Bible’s true essence. I can understand that a non-believer can turn their head from science and with full conviction accept the slogan, “Pro Child, Pro Family, Pro Choice”. But there is no excuse for a Bible believing Christian to accept any form of Abortion. We are called to defend the innocent. God knows us in the womb and before we are even formed. God creates us, we are not God, we cannot take life on a whim because of what Obama calls, “A mistake”.
For Christians we are called to a higher understanding of our Lord and our relationship to Him. For Christians we have the blood of the Child still in the womb on our hands if we do not resist Abortion and make the effort to protect the Child Within the Womb.
Psalm 139 : 13-18.
For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place.
When I was woven together in the depths of the earth,
your eyes saw my unformed body.
All the days ordained for me
were written in your book
before one of them came to be.
How precious to me are your thoughts, O God!
How vast is the sum of them!
Were I to count them,
they would outnumber the grains of sand.
When I awake,
I am still with you.
Psalm 139 13-18
There are many more verses in the Bible that show that life is already precious to God in the mother’s womb. It is for Christians to know who God is and how he loves us before we are out of the comfort of the womb. Non-believers may not understand but Christians will be held accountable for their actions, decisions and inactions. Obama is on the wrong side of this issue, if he is as he proclaims a Christian. (riggword)
*** *** ***
Read Obama’s Own words on Abortion
Chilling: Obama’s concern for abortionists’ burden
Barack Obama translation:
Oh, what a drag it is on abortionists to detect movement and signs of life in a baby who survived attempted murder.
Such a burden to have to call in another doctor to determine the viability of the baby — or “however way you want to describe it.”
*** *** ***
Michelle Malkin has this to say:
Saddle up: Saddleback Forum open thread; Obama on abortion: “Above my pay grade,” attacks Clarence Thomas
For those of you watching the Rick Warren/Obama/McCain show tonight, here’s your open thread.
Watch online here.
Wake me up if anything interesting happens.
Like I said before, I’m not holding my breath…
***
Obama on abortion: It’s “above his pay grade.” What the…
Obama on which Supreme Court justice he wouldn’t have nominated: Clarence Thomas.
Disturbingly, commenters note, the Saddleback audience cheered.
RACIST!
(Update): Allah’s got the near-gaffetastic video of Obama’s Thomas remarks.
Mark Levin: “On Obama’s best day he can’t hold a candle to Thomas’s intelligence.”
***
McCain on when babies are entitled to human rights: “At the moment of conception…this presidency will have pro-life policies.”
Define marriage: “A union between a man and a woman. One man and one woman.”
Warren asks about California marriage preservation proposition and Calif. Supreme Court. “California Supreme Court was wrong.”
Lies, damned abortion lies, and Obama’s smear of pro-lifers
Barack Obama accused pro-lifers of lying about his position on the Born Alive Infant Protection Act over the weekend. Classic case of pot calling the kettle black. (I know: RACIST!)
Jill Stanek has the goods:
Obama campaign changes story, admits he misrepresented Born Alive vote.
How do you tell when Obama’s lying?
When his lips are moving. (More Malkin)
And One More From Michelle Malkin:

Keep him away from the babies.
There’s a newly uncovered paper trail demonstrating Barack Obama’s abortion militancy you can believe in (hat tip – Jill Stanek):
Newly obtained documents prove that in 2003, Barack Obama, as chairman of an IL state Senate committee, voted down a bill to protect live-born survivors of abortion – even after the panel had amended the bill to contain verbatim language, copied from a federal bill passed by Congress without objection in 2002, explicitly foreclosing any impact on abortion. Obama’s legislative actions in 2003 – denying effective protection even to babies born alive during abortions – were contrary to the position taken on the same language by even the most liberal members of Congress. The bill Obama killed was virtually identical to the federal bill that even NARAL ultimately did not oppose.
The NRLC’s Obama paper trail index is here.
***
And here’s a related howler about the Party of Planned Parenthood:
ABC NEWS: Are Democrats Now Pro-Life? As Convention Draws Near, New Talk of a Pro-Life Presence
Were you attempting lure me out of lurkdom?
I really find this statement offensive :
But there is no excuse for a Bible believing Christian to accept any form of Abortion.
I agree with you wholeheartedly that abortion is wrong… but I still stand by my belief that abortion (not all forms) should be legal and highly controlled. Something that I do not believe it is at this time.
I would like to see abortion and the laws surrounding it highly reformed to control it… but do I believe that it is possible? No, not really….
By: Anna on August 21, 2008
at 3:02 am
Anna,
Great to hear from you.
I was wondering where you were.
Lurking about I suppose.
Our creator is magnificent. God does not make mistakes. He creates and only He can tell us how to live. Knowing God intimately, personally and completely is our purpose. Understanding God, taking a stand for Him, and Glorifying Him is our purpose.
I cannot understand how not taking a stance against abortion glorifies God.
I cannot understand, knowing the Bible (Read Psalm 139); having a personal relationship with God; loving Him and His created beings, his wonderful humans created in his image, how I as a follower of Christ and a child of God cannot resist all attempts to take the life of the innocent child who lives in the womb.
We are the salt of the Earth; we need to rise to a higher calling and higher moral standard than the unsaved. We need to reflect God, his love, his righteousness, and his healing hand. If we support the murder of the innocent we are not reflecting God’s image to the world.
McCain says, “Life begins at conception”. No shaky answer from McCain.
Obama says among a whole slurry of rhetoric, “That question is above my pay scale”. His answer is a side steep, a smoke screen, a non-answer. If he has no clue what the answer is to when life begins, then he should at least call for saving the lives of the unborn until he figures it out. Or he should get out of the way and let those who have clear thoughts make the decisions.
As Christians we need to stand for truth and for life and against evil and sin. Even if some of us think laws will not change we still need to make a stand and a statement against abortion.
Otherwise where do we stop bending over for the world? When do we stop giving in to the flesh and sin? Do we legalize drugs, same sex marriage, euthanasia, letting the infirm die instead of giving them long term medical care, cloning, termination to avoid genetic problems?
Thanks again Anna for your comments.
Would you like to share with me where you would draw the line on taking the life of the unborn?
I know you have been busy lately, but maybe you have some time to continue this dialog.
Thanks again,
God Bless,
Riggword.
By: riggword on August 21, 2008
at 3:52 am
Well, honestly, I am never for taking the life of the unborn. But I also don’t believe that if we made it illegal it would go away. Abortion has been around forever. I support it being legal and controlled and safe. I value both the life of the mother and the child. That means I want it to be safe. I know this doesn’t make sense to most christians. But it is the way I see it. I don’t want us to go back to clothes hanger days. With that said, it doesn’t mean I think that a woman choosing to have an abortion is right. I don’t think we can make everyone believe like us and the world is going to be dark and there will be sin. It doesn’t mean I support it, but I do support free will. And so does God, that is why He gave it to us. Unbelievers need to choose to believe in Him. They need to choose to believe His word. And us imposing our beliefs on those who don’t believe as us isn’t how God is. God is a gentlemen giving us choice.
Do I think women should be allowed to have multiple abortions? No. Do I think that there should be good options for these women? Yes I do. I believe in teaching teens abstinence. I do not agree with teens being allowed to have abortions without their parents consent. As with any medical procedure minors should have to have parents consent.
Oh and I am not defending Obama at all. I find him rather despicable lately and I have no idea what we will do if he is president.
I cannot imagine ever having an abortion honestly. I find it disgusting and obscene. Why women make that choice is beyond me. During a miscarriage I had years ago, I had to have a D&C which is the same procedure they do for an early abortion and I sobbed through the whole procedure, even though I was drugged heavily.
By: Anna on August 21, 2008
at 11:30 pm
Rigg, you hit it right and Anna caught the hook.
I have held for my entire adult life that there is no such thing as a pro-choice Christian. I may be wrong, but it is just what I get from Scripture.
I take the extreme position that abortion in any form and in any circumstance is murder. There was a time in when women died frequently during childbirth. This fact was accepted as God’s will. That was a different time when the Bible was treated as the definitive guidebook for life.
The arguments that legal abortions create a safe haven for women and that making them illegal will not make them go away does not fly with me. There are consequences for our actions. Abortion is a moral issue and nothing more.
We do not make murder legal, because most humans agree that it is morally wrong. Why is abortion any different? God did give us free will, but people are not being allowed to run around with 12-bangers blowing their bosses away just because they want to.
In a world where abortion is mostly legal and considered normal, why not just abolish all laws and let nihilism reign under the banner of human rights? Abortion, child rape, child sex, incest, murder, beastiality, sodomy, public fornication reigning free.
By: peak9 on August 22, 2008
at 12:36 am
Anna, I hope you are still lurking.
These are important spiritual, moral, political, and God relationship issues.
What do you think about men having sex with boys; should this act be legal?
exactly peak9,
Where do we draw the line? If killing the innocent unborn is acceptable then why not let people do whatever they personally feel is acceptable.
There is a group NAMBL, National Association of Man Boy Lovers, who support men having sex with young boys. Should Christians fight against legalized sex with minors?
Or, should we approve because they are going to do it anyway? You know that if it is illegal to have sex with underage boys then they will break the law to do it. Why should we make those poor men and boys break the law by making sex with underage boys illegal?
This line of reason can be followed down to the depths of immorality and debauchery.
If Christians do not take a stand on moral issues then who will?
Here’s a little NAMBL news:
A case for Same Sex Marriges
… John Robin Sharp, the national representative of NAMBL says that Man Boy love is real and it is time their special and sexual relationship is recognized. … View More
By: riggword on August 22, 2008
at 1:47 am
See, I see my stand on it as having made a stand. But all you see is that I say that I think abortion should be legal and say that I am pro-abortion, which is a totally different thing.
I do think we should make a stand on moral issues. But there is so much more to being a christian then this…
I do call abortion murder. But would I stand in front of someone who has had an abortion and call them a murderer… NO… I would not! I don’t think Jesus would either. Why? Look at the way he treated the prostitute. He did call her out on her actions, but then gave her forgiveness and even defended her to her accusers.
I think we as christians need to display the love of Christ, more then we need to go around calling people today sinners, murderers, etc.
OF COURSE I AM AGAINST MEN HAVING SEX WITH MINORS…. you guys make me laugh….
By: Anna on August 22, 2008
at 6:32 am
Thanks again for your comments Anna,
I too see value in consoling those who have been misled into having an abortion. The effects on Women as well as Men who have gone through an abortion are devastating.
That is another one of the misleading myths of Abortion, that it doesn’t have long term effects on the adults evolved. These people also need protection before they go through with the abortion. Which to me is another reason Christians need to stand for life.
It is good to see that you do have a line that you can draw and stand on. You have a strong moral conviction to oppose Men having sex with minors.
And If that makes you laugh….I guess we all need a good laugh once in a while. As far as sinners go, Christ comforted but always added, “Go and sin no more”. Once forgiven he commands us to repent.
The reason I am keeping this dialog going, and I do appreciate your added comments, is that I think it helps people to clarify their personal beliefs and understanding of their relationship with God.
So, I hope you don’t mind following up this moral topic. If you don’t mind let’s leave the Abortion issue behind for a while.
Anna, could you tell me why you are “AGAINST MEN HAVING SEX WITH MINORS”?
And if we as a society agree that it should be “illegal” then what do you think we should do with men who cross that line?
Thanks again for your thoughts.
God Bless,
riggword
By: riggword on August 22, 2008
at 6:47 am
You know, I don’t really know…. I know we aren’t doing enough about it. I don’t think the laws in this country are tough enough and guys who do it don’t serve enough time.
My husband would say, take them out and shoot em. I am more compassionate then that. So, at this moment I am not sure I can answer that.
It’s fine with me to leave the abortion issue behind. I just feel like you misunderstand my thoughts.
By: Anna on August 22, 2008
at 8:05 am
Thanks Anna,
I am guessing that you would be in favor of fewer abortions.
What do you think about Same Sex Marriage?
Should we follow California’s Supreme Court example and legalize Same Sex Marriage?
If you can take a stand against legalizing Gay marriage, then you will want to support a candidate who will nominate constitutional originalists who will uphold marriage between one man and one woman.
That candidate is John McCain.
An Obama Supreme Court will give us, more abortions, legalizing same sex marriage, loser controls on bad behaviors like sex with underage boys and girls, loser drug laws..etc.
Anna, it is imperative that Christians understand that an Obama presidency will give room for more sin in our country and less restraint by Americans. An Obama presidency will also make us weaker militarily.
Even if you cannot take a firm stance legally on some of these issues. You can still take a stance on the general decline of America’s moral center. As long as liberals are in charge America’s moral pendulum will swing towards Godless acts. As Christians we are to be God’s warriors, examples and spokespeople on this Earth.
We need to stand for God centered political outcomes. McCain will give America the best chance for being God full instead of God Less.
God Bless,
riggword
By: riggword on August 22, 2008
at 8:24 am
It is my understanding that McCain’s stand on abortion and on same sex marriage is new. When he started campaigning I read things that said he was pro-choice and pro-same sex marriage. This is a new development to me and so I am a bit confused. This is why I believed he was more democratic then our other choices in the republican race previously. I am really shocked that he changed his stand and don’t really understand that at all. Not saying I am against McCain though.
Thanks Riggword, it is because of you that I am considering voting for McCain. I am seeing him in a new light.
By: Anna on August 22, 2008
at 9:04 am
Great Anna,
Keep checking out the truth.
Did you see the Rick Warren Q & A?
If you can find it watch the whole thing.
McCain is decisive and straight forward.
Obama is evasive, general, and indecisive; not good qualities for a president.
I have a portion of it on my newest post,
“Obama, What Else is Not in My Pay Grade?”
You can also read his recent comments about China and the Olympics on my post tomorrow.
Remember there is a distinct difference; we must make the best choice this year.
Thanks again Anna,
God Bless,
riggword.
By: riggword on August 22, 2008
at 9:22 am
The train on stopping the normalization of homosexuality has left the station. The younger generations see no problem with it so as the older generations die off, societal norms are going to change.
The Roman Empire fell because of its own decadence. America and the West are going down the same path.
By: peak9 on August 23, 2008
at 12:00 am
peak9,
You are so right on on these issues.
I work in public schools with teenagers; they are brainwashed beyond belief.
Christ can repair the souls of these lost children. The problem is that the same teachers who are filling them up with same sex love approval are also filling their heads with anti-Christian bigotry.
God Bless,
riggword
By: riggword on August 23, 2008
at 2:41 am